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You didn't really give me a chance to respond to what you said, but no hard feelings. lol
At any rate, your saying that "none of the games actual events are mentioned on the timeline as they take place after September 1583" is not true. That entry is itself an in-game event, namely Mitsurugi's second battle in his Edge Master mode. Not even the first, the second battle. You are literally playing the game in 1583.
But, here's the thing. There are no official sources--in-game, artbook, etc.--that I can find that would indicate that Soul Edge occurred in 1584, SC1 in 1587, etc. Not in English nor in Japanese. Only 1583.
Outside of Soul Edge, Soulcalibur V, and Soulcalibur VI, anything regarding the timeline was only spoken about in non-specific terms. "The 1550s", "For over 20 years", "The end of the 16th century", "3 years later", etc.
My guess is that, given that SCV was supposed to be super story driven before it got its funding cut, prepping for SCV was the first time that they laid out everything in detail at all. They included all the stuff that had been mentioned in the previous games and artbooks, but spelled out the concrete years, hence the timeline page from the art book.
And all this compiled info can also be found in SCVI's museum. So, it seems like this is the official canon we're working with.
I can only conclude that the original sin was that perhaps someone, years and years ago, saw Mitsurugi's birthday somewhere, 6/8/1562, also saw that the game took place in 1583, and then saw that the game lists him as 22, and made the assumption that the devs don't know how to do math. But, I really do believe that this was a wrong assumption that every fell victim to.
The reason being is that Mitsu's birthdate in the "alternate history" page above is very much meant to be a historical take. That page exists to tie Soul Edge into Japanese history and in addition, his and the other characters from East Asia use classical height and weight measurements (shaku/sun 尺・寸 and kanme 貫目 respectively).
Thus, they probably used the classical Japanese age reckoning for the birthdate as well.
Now, I can't say for sure that going into Soulcalibur onward, they really stuck to using classical age for the relevant characters. But, no other official sources have birth years listed anywhere. Not even Mitsu's full birthdate was never included in-game for Soul Edge. Only the characters' ages in any given game or artbook.
But, the timeline image above does state that Hilde was 11 in 1583, putting her birth year as 1572 (the wiki says 1573 currently) and also says that Ivy's mom was impregnated in 1558. From there, if Ivy's birthday is really in December (probably just the day she was found on the doorstep), given how human gestation works, that pretty much means that she was born in 1558. The wiki says 1559, and the only way that would make sense is if her birth mom kept her several months before giving her up. But, we don't know that. They didn't get that specific with it. It also says that Cervantes claimed Soul Edge in 1553. So, if that stopped his aging, he'd be born in 1505.
Given all of this, I would highly advise at least fixing the in-game years (1583/1586/1590/1607) as that seems to have always been consistent and those years are front and center while playing SCVI's story modes. If you'd insist on keeping them as they are, could you at least point me to the other sites that you are trying to keep in line with, and/or tell me what official sources you're working with for the in-game years?
Now, as for the characters' birth years...I honestly don't know. They were never sourced, so you could just wholesale delete them and not have to deal with any discrepancies. Or, you can place a footnote on the East Asian characters' ages, and adjust any non-East Asian characters' birth years back one. At any rate, specifically Hilde's, Ivy's, and Cervantes' birth years have come into question.
I know that was hella long, but thank you for your time.
I guess you're right. We've discussed and we assumed that, besides one source dating back to 2006 stating that the first game was set in 1584 (from supposedly a timeline from the official website, which has disappeared by now), nothing indeed further confirms that the game was set at that time.
As you said, the best thing to do is to fix the dates of the different games, as well as remove the years in each character's profile. We would like, however, to avoid using age reckoning for Asian characters and simply leaving the ages as they are given on the official websites.
EDIT: Though we don't quite understand why, since 2006, the game is stated as being set in 1584 according to the official website... I still have to check one or two artbooks I have at home to see if I can't find out something confirming either one or another of the arguments. Also, I've seen plenty of quite old websites (in French, dating back before 2008, year during which the dates were added on this wiki) stating that the game is indeed set in 1584.
In French, you say? That's beyond my capabilities, unfortunately.
Do you know which official website was sourced? I assume one for Soulcalibur III if it was in 2006. Or was it the Japanese Soul Archive website? I do know that there was a Flash website for SC3 that was taken down a while back. If it said anything, we may never know at this point. I'd assume that it'd all be the same as the current SC3 website though, and...now even that seems to be dead for some reason. I dunno what's going on. It was literally there yesterday.
But regardless, thank you for your understanding. At least people won't be confused going forward.
All the source said back in 2006 was "A timeline from the old Soul Archive website" and that's it. I presume said website doesn't exist anymore or that timeline doesn't exist anymore, I'm not sure. Ethier way, every other site shares the exact same dates for games and birth years as us, so I really have no idea where the "official" information came from but it seems everyone in then community takes it as fact. We both made great point towards this situation.
Anyhow, I just thought I'd let you know; You shouldn't have went and changed all the pages until this discussion had ended and you got official go ahead from me (and if I was unavailable at the time it'd be passed to LightningSakura>JeffreyDante>Twin Angel Step, unless we decided to use an Admin or Community consensus instead). It's an important change that could bring more confusion/anger from users as you're the only user who has said anything.
So I just thought it'd point that out to you. Especially if you want to make more important changes like this in the future.
Oh, yeah, he is of course. Everyone is allowed to speak on the situation, it's a community! It's just the go ahead usually comes from me (and if I'm not there it goes down in that order I posted above) or from a community consensus (which then still needs approval in said order too) that's all!
I shall send links later on. I am out at the moment and currently on my phone. I should point out that all the sites (I presume) are fan edited, I'm not 100% sure.
I should let you guys know that I found the flash SC3 site. I'm surprised that it's still up after all these years. They really pulled out all the stops with it. It looks like the streaming videos no longer work, however.
Unfortunately, the history and prologue sections don't have concrete years, either. =/
I did find in one of the interviews that if Zasalamel continued reincarnating to the present day, he might be a rap MC, which is definitely one of those "bruh moments". lol
Hey, it's me. Here to cause trouble again for the holidays. lol
But, this should really be the last of it.
I've been doing some more reading, and what I can gather is that at least for the New Legends of Soulcalibur book (where that large timeline originated), they're not really adhering to old-school East Asian age reckoning if you read the events surrounding characters like Xiba and Natsu.
Specifically, it talks about how Kilik left Xianghua and has been dealing with Astral Fissures for the past 17 years (leaving no room for Xiba to technically be 15 and not 16). As well as how it says that Natsu was possessed by Arahabaki 17 years ago (meaning that she had to at least have been born and really is 17 by our standards).
But, the info in that book still adheres to Soul Edge being in 1583 and so on and so forth. So, that likely leaves one of two roads to go down.
a. The Soul Edge characters: Mitsurugi, Taki, Hwang, Li Long, Mi-na, and Han-myeong use old school age reckoning and are technically 1 year younger than they are. But, anyone introduced from SC1 onward didn't adhere to that. Since everyone's ages are listed together in the same games, it creates weirdness and makes the original SE characters' ages questionable. And a note could be added onto their pages saying as such.
b. Since Mitsu's was the only concretely listed birth year before SC5, it may be the simplest to posit that that was retconned away and he was actually born in 1561. And since we don't know if they took into account that the Western characters in SE wouldn't use the same age system, everyone's birth years and ages from whatever country can now coincide without trouble. (I'm partial to this one if I'm being honest.)
The reason I bring this up is because there's nothing stopping anyone at a later date from doing more math in their head and putting everyone's birth years back up on the wiki. And it is convenient to have the years listed on the profiles, given the games take place over a span of time. Everyone can grasp at a glance how individual characters line up with each other without knowing what year each individual game is in. And it provides an anchor going forward since SC6 takes place over 6-7 years.
But, it'll never be perfect since we know that the events in previous games at least took place over months and whatever day it was, someone's birthday may not have come yet and that means that their stated age is wonky no matter what (that's true for a lot of media, really). And so continuing to leave the birth year blank alleviates this to a point.
So, I'll leave the final say on whether the birth years should be here on the wiki or not to you all. If you want them back, I'll do it since I was responsible for removing them in the first place.
Sorry about that. I do want to make sure everything is correct here. As in my most recent post that I made to the community wall, Project Soul didn't make a mistake with the years. As such, the years should really be kept to what all the official media says.
Even way back from the first game, it's been consistent. I dont know if you can read Japanese or not, but this is from the Soul Edge archive. Note the 1562 and 1583 years for Mitsurugi's birth and the events of the first game.
Legends of Project Soul that was made for Soulcalibur V and Soulcalibur V itself is what began the messed up Timeline due to it stating that Soulcalibur V is set in 1607.
If you go solely on dates of births of the characters, the best one to look at would be Natsu. She was born in 1591 and is stated to be 17 in Soulcalibur V. Now, if Soulcalibur V is actually set in 1607 and Soulcalibur IV 1590 that would only make Natsu 16, not 17.
That is probably the biggest and most obvious way to look at the issue with the dates. The obvious solution would be SCII - SCIV being set in 1591 and SCV being set in 1608, despite what the official artbook for SCV may say, characters dates of birth that have been there from the beginning match the 1591 year and not 1590.
And not what you (or Soulcalibur V's artbook) says, -1 year of those dates.
This goes for every single other character in the game too. They all match up with SCIV being 1591 and SCV being 1608, regardless of what other sources say about the timeline, the dates pretty much speak for themselves. The most I can do is speak to the other admins about the situation but for now things should be left as they are.
As stated by Colton, the dates are consistent in every game except Soulcalibur V, so the discrepency is in the artbooks, not the games. The games are just as much "official media" as an artbook. If the games have all said one thing other than SCV, I really do not think it is proper to edit everything to match the artbook or something else when even Soulcalibur VI matches the timeline of in-game events.
If the ages are a year off because of the "age of reckoning" it wouldn't even effect non-asian characters.
But, wait a minute. None of the games have the years stated as 1584-1587-1591. As I linked to, Soul Edge specifically states that it occurs in 1583, and that seems to have never changed, even for the SC6 reboot. And as far as I know, from there the games only stated the number of years that had past until Soulcalibur V stating 1607. The math there lines up. 1583 + 3 + 4 + 17 = 1607.
Furthermore, I can't find any official media, in-game, or artbook, that lists all the characters actual birth years. Not for Siegfired, not for Natsu, not Sophitia. It does state their ages, however.
Are we sure that all the birth years on the wiki weren't a result of relative math given the birth years we had confirmed (like Mitsurugi)? If so, it may be that everyone's birth years were off and not the dates of the games.
I agree that the age reckoning would only affect the East Asian characters ages, but where did all of these birth years originally come from? If it does turn out that there was no official media that had them, I would revise them accordingly.
It doesn't feel right that we have numerous instances of the games stating what year everything is and we randos on the internet are telling the devs, and everyone else that comes by, that they have it wrong if we've just been making stuff up on our own.
Well, no. It states that someone goes searching for Soul Edge at the end of 1583. The actual games story takes place in 1584. Even then, what you linked to is still inconsistent within itself. Yes, it states Mitsurugi is born in 1562. So we take that information. Now, let's go to Soulcalibur II a minute, let's look at Mitsurugi's profile, his age is stated as "29", okay. So we have the only actual confirmed date of birth, being 1562, and his SCII age being 29. So let's work that out... 1562 + 29 = 1591. So obviously that must mean, 100%, that 1584-1587-1591 is actually correct, no? Video to Mitsurugi's profile stating his age.
With that information in mind, we were able to accurately work out the other characters' year of birth. The only time the years got messed up was when Soulcalibur V got released which wrongly stated the year as 1607 when it should have been 1608.
The reason why it's off is because of the reckoning age that I mentioned before. Up until the 20th Century, Japan started their ages at 1 and not 0. So, the games state his ages as 22-25-29-46, but by modern conventions, he would be a year younger. 21-24-28-45.
Given this, the years line up. If the only concrete birth year we were going off of was Mitsurugi's, then that should be taken into account across the board.
You can't just assume that the east Asian reckoning age was used within Soulcalibur lore. The game is very westernised despite coming from Japan and it is never explicitly stated that it was used. Every other page on the internet uses 1584-1587-1591 and we weren't even the first site to do so. Also, in this timeline it states "Another History" surrounding the evil blades. Going up to September 1583, however, none of the games actual events are mentioned on the timeline as they take place after September 1583, starting properly with 1584.
Anyway, for now I want to put this issue to rest as we match up with all other websites at the moment and until any sufficient enough evidence can be provided (not just the possibility that they used the reckoning age just because they did in real life) we are dropping the issue until further notice.
Hi! My name is PsiSeveredHead, and I’m the Fandom Wiki Manager for the SoulCalibur Wiki. I am here to help the community and be a liaison to full-time Fandom staff. If you ever have a question or issue relating to the wiki, editing, etc., please contact me on my message wall or talk page. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) contribs 19:42, May 20, 2019 (UTC)
I need help trying to understand the Soulcalibur lore. Specifically, I see that this wiki is able to explain the lore for each game, but I wish to know where the editors are finding this information for games such as Soul Edge/Blade or Soulcalibur, which do not have intro cutscenes that explain lore or any lore setup in the manuals either. TL;DR: where is the legitimate source of lore information for Soul Edge/Blade and Soulcalibur?
Hi there! i was wondering if you know a way on how i can be able to get Darth Vader in my Xbox 360 Version of SC4? Since all the DLC is gone. is there still a chance i can get vader? and if so then how?
Hi! I'm an admin over on Aselia, and we recently had a user post what looks like a copied article from this wiki: w:c:aselia:Lloyd Irving (Soulcalibur). Can I reword the content and incorporate it into the wiki, or should I just delete it outright? Thanks!
MissSlenderNeko is a notorious troll who has been doing a lot of unnecessary edits in various wiki sites. She is already been blocked in Tekken, Injustice, Mortal Kombat, Slender Man, Halo, and many more.
Hey Lanate, if you're okay with that article being on your wiki feel free to reword it and maybe have a template or something linking back to the original article on this wiki. If you'd rather not have it on that wiki then feel free to delete it.
Autumn, I'm aware of MissSlenderNeko's blocks on other wikis for trolling, spam and plagiarism. I have made the other admins on this wiki aware of this beahviour so we all have our eyes peeled on her account. However, as she has not done anything to harm this wiki she will remain unblocked. There is currently a small issue but that's something for us to work out. Thank you for your warning, however. I will keep it in mind and be sure to show the others admins this thread.